Admin Q&A Session, Mar 29 2009
A tale freshly told of the Arnorian
What it says ) Logged by Brandebras
Admin Q&A - 29 March
Conference Room
Large open spaces and expansive glass-paned windows characterize this luxurious conference room suspended high above Middle-earth. Sunlight peaks through the clouds above to reveal a breathtaking view of the landscape below. The lonely mountain, Erebor, towers prominently on the horizon to the north the lush green of Fangorn shades the mighty waters of the Anduin almost directly below and off to the west glints and sparkles of wave crests mark the beginning of the open sea. In the middle of the room you spy a large oak table surrounded by numerous chairs with those little wheely things on the bottom. This place is perfect!
Contents:
Glorfindel
Frarin
Endaerion
Raugsaul
Amrundirn
Imrakhor
Logoz
Elrohir
Obvious exits:
Out leads to OOC Room.
Endaerion says, \"I know you gots the punch and cookies. Don\'t hold out on me!\"
Flarin arrives from the OOC Room.
Flarin has arrived.
Elrohir looks wary. Well. Perhaps we do, perhaps we don\'t...
Glorfindel stuffs something large under shirt.
Elrohir says, \"Ama, please!\"
Mara arrives from the OOC Room.
Mara has arrived.
Glorfindel says, \"I\'m keeping it all for me!\"
Endaerion says, \"I have a question\"
Elrohir says, \"Is it about punch?\"
Endaerion shakes head.
Endaerion says, \"What do the Admins plan to do about the economic crisis?\"
Elrohir says, \"We plan to solve it with good use of the players\' +money.\"
Eruphel arrives from the OOC Room.
Eruphel has arrived.
Eruphel says, \"Howdy.\"
Amrundirn says, \"Su o/\"
Glorfindel says, \"Hi. :)\"
Endaerion says, \"Is it true that the Admins have planned a second OOC credit bailout?\"
Elrohir says, \"Fortunately very little of it was lost in bad investments, so we should do well. Well. Some of us.\"
Eruphel hugs Amrundirn.
Elrohir says, \"Hello Eruphel. :)\"
Brandebras sighs. If only I could cash in those ooc credits ... must have a few million by now
Eruphel says, \"Oh, I\'d love to see what I just missed. LOL!\"
Logoz says, \"This sounds too much like communism. Satan is coming!\"
Eruphel says, \"You can give me some of yours, I have a few +polls left in me.\"
Endaerion says, \"And what does the Administration plan to do about the oversaturation of toxic +polls?\"
Elrohir says, \"I didn\'t know we did a first OOC credit bail... I mean, we\'re considering all kinds of possibilities to ensure the continued +polling capacity of everyone.\"
Endaerion says, \"A lot of people lost a lot of OOC credits in those +polls.\"
Amrundirn winks.
Logoz says, \"We shouldn\'t have given credits to people who could never pay them back.\"
Endaerion says, \"What does the Administration plan to do about idiots who will +poll anything that comes to mind, like me?\"
Elrohir says, \"It is true this is how much the admins love you. We give away all credits for free. First point. Next question. )\"
Endaerion says, \"I\'m all out of OOC credits, I need a bailout.\"
Elrohir says, \"If I told you that, it would spoil the surprise for you when we get around to it.\"
Flarin will take anyone\'s unwanted credits!
Mara says, \"Is there anything big brewing that we should know about?\"
Endaerion says, \"Alright, thank you. No further questions.\"
Elrohir says, \"What do you mean, Mara?\"
Eruphel says, \"Well, if you don\'t know the question, /I\'m/ not going to tell you!\"
Logoz says, \"When are we pulling out of BeleriandMUSH?\"
Eruphel giggles.
Mara hmms. \"Changes to administration, culture groupings, policies?\"
Jiatl arrives from the OOC Room.
Jiatl has arrived.
Morgaen arrives from the OOC Room.
Morgaen has arrived.
Eruphel says, \"I think I need to bring an alt.\"
Nomad arrives from the OOC Room.
Nomad has arrived.
Nomad says, \"Here I am!\"
Eruphel heads back to Middle-earth.
Eruphel has left.
Nomad is Eruphel.
Amrundirn says, \"O_o\"
Endaerion says, \"New question: what is the Administration\'s view of the supposed granting of \'OOC credit bonuses\' to the local-admins of Arnor-Imladris-Gondor???\"
Brandebras sniffs. You could always make a real alt, Eruphel!
Elrohir says, \"I believe the answer to that is no. We just had a fairly big change with the culture groupings and I hope they\'re working well for all, or at least for the majority of people. But do understand, please, that if there WAS something big that we were considering at this point, and we hadn\'t told you so far, then it\'d be at a stage where we thought that it\'d be counterproductive to tell everyone about our thoughts and potentially upset people over things we might not actually ever really do. Telling you anything that I\'m not at liberty to tell you at this point would be gossiping at best, and detrimental at worst.\"
Logoz would like to hear the answer to Mara\'s... right :)
Elrohir says, \"Though as I said, I\'m not saying there is something that I\'m not telling you just why, if there were something, I probably would avoid the question.\"
Nomad says, \"Then someone would want me to join a culture.\"
Elrohir says, \"This is one of the difficult issues I\'d like to answer your questions, and I will if I can, but both Ama and I also have an obligation to confidentiality in some cases which we\'re not going to break. I hope you\'ll understand that, if it becomes an issue at some point.\"
Mara nods. \"Yeah. I know. Thanks though.\"
Imrakhor says, \"I\'ll ask something that I\'ve heard tossed around quite a bit recently: has there been any thought given to loosening up theme?\"
Elrohir smiles.
Endaerion says, \":nods.\"
Endaerion mis
Elrohir says, \"You mean, \"to loosening up theme or to straighten up theme\", I assume, since both of them have frequently been tossed about at great length not just recently but for almost as long as I can remember.\"
Elrohir says, \"But do you have anything particular in mind?\"
Endaerion says, \"Yeah, I mean, isn\'t that sort of a complex issue that changes across cultures?\"
Brandebras wonders if it\'s the admins or the culture leaders that make theme? I assumed it was more the latter
Nomad says, \"The way I see it, the Local admins create and/or enforce the theme, and the admin fire them if they don\'t do a good job. So...both, but one indirectly. :)\"
Logoz raises a hand.
Elrohir says, \"The admins decide what constitutes canon that\'s in the global news files. They do delegate the task of interpreting theme and making sure it\'s adhered to mostly to +rulers, though people can (and have) appeal a ruler\'s decision on theme.\"
Imrakhor nods.
Elrohir says, \"Does this relate to the theme question, Lo, or is it a new one?\"
Imrakhor says, \"That\'s a fine answer in effect, speak to your rulers.\"
Logoz says, \"It relates to the meeting.\"
Elrohir says, \"In a way. If you feel your culture\'s theme is too strict, then your rulers can probably explain why they think it\'s not, which hopefully will settle the issue.\"
Elrohir says, \"Yes, Lo?\"
Endaerion says, \"Bor, I told you, no magical war unicorns.\"
Endaerion says, \"I have a question.\"
Glorfindel says, \"After Lo, then. :)\"
Elrohir says, \"It\'ll have to wait until Lo\'s asked his, I assume. :)\"
Logoz says, \"I was just going to ask that when a question is posed, we wait to hear an answer before throwing in thoughts or comments about it. It can be hard to keep track of who is addressing what if we are all talking at once. :)\"
Glorfindel says, \"That\'s a fair request.\"
Elrohir says, \"Not a big issue so far, I believe, though certainly a good point, yes.\"
Flarin says, \"But that keeps things organized and well planned, and who wants that?\"
Elrohir says, \"Not me, certainly, I\'m an admin after all. )\"
Endaerion says, \"Yeah, sorry, my ADHD is usually hard to contain within \'discussion structures\'. I also pose out of turn )\"
Logoz says, \"Morgoth does. He\'s very specific about how he wants it done, too )\"
Elrohir says, \"Right, I think Endaerion had a question, if Lo is done? :)\"
Logoz is indeed.
Endaerion says, \"Has there been any word on the return of culture.elendor.net subdomains?\"
Elrohir says, \"Word, or do you mean are they going to be back up any day now or do we know when they\'re going to be up again?\"
Endaerion says, \"Something like that )\"
Elrohir says, \"No on both counts, I believe, though you\'d have to ask Sauron since the website had to move to his personal server. I\'m not aware of any very recent development on that front, though, I\'m afraid.\"
Flarin says, \"What happened to cc, wasn\'t he running the website?\"
Elrohir says, \"Yes, but then he left adminning due to RL issues and no longer has the time to do so.\"
Endaerion nods.
Elrohir says, \"Anyone else? :)\"
Brandebras has a question. Sorry if it\'s dumb
Amrundirn has one too.
Elrohir says, \"We\'ll reserve judgement on that until after, Brand. ) Go ahead.\"
\"Are there things we could be doing and aren\'t that would help the +admins? Bearing in mind that for many (most?) of us, connect time is strictly limited.
Elrohir says, \"That\'s not dumb at all.\"
Glorfindel says, \"I think...\"
Elrohir says, \"It\'s a fairly big question but I\'ll try to answer to the best of my abilities. Mind, this is my opinion:\"
Mennon arrives from the OOC Room.
Mennon has arrived.
Elrohir says, \"I think the best thing you can do that would help the +admins is to do what you\'ve always done (hopefully): RP with enthusiasm, help new players, make them feel welcome. Be NICE to each other. ) Play with passion. Any one of those things helps. If you can pass on the word about Elendor, that\'d be very welcome and great, as well. Don\'t assume that the admins are people who don\'t care about what happens. Don\'t assume that the admins are people you can\'t talk to (I\'m hoping meetings like this one will help with that bit). This is very important. If you have a good idea for global issues, don\'t feel like you can\'t share it. But if we don\'t take it at once, try to understand that we\'re trying to do what we think is best for the game as a whole, and that we\'re only people, too. Um...\"
Glorfindel will throw hers out there, even though there\'s some repeat. )
Glorfindel says, \"I feel (again, my opinion) that one of the best things a player can do, regardless of connect times, is try to get others involved in your fun. It\'s very easy to fall into the thinking that, as a player, there\'s nothing you yourself can do, but it\'s not true. Create RP, and do everything you can to involve others in it. Volunteer to help your local administration with projects (be they TP organization, building, whatever). Try to help recruit - and involve - new players to your various cultures. Take part in global discussion with feedback and constructive criticism on what everyone can do better. Whatever talents you feel you have, use them to enable other people as well.\"
Elrohir says, \"This may be off-target slightly, but it\'s something I feel strongly about so I\'m easily diverted into that kind of rant. The bottom line is, cut us some slack, and I think you\'ll find we\'ll be very grateful for it. I say this because the question is about admins and helping them, so...\"
Logoz has a question after Amrundirn\'s.
Elrohir says, \"Was that what you were looking for or did we just get it completely wrong? :)\"
Mara says, \"Or, in summary, admins are human too and are genuinely trying to do what\'s best for the MUSH, so please don\'t assume the worst. Also, RP.\"
Elrohir says, \"Also, don\'t assume the worst of each other.\"
Glorfindel says, \"That\'s a good addition.\"
Brandebras thanks both for the answers! I guess the fact we\'re here means we\'re all trying to do those things anyway )
Elrohir says, \"Not an addition, though it might have gotten lost between the other things I was saying before. )\"
Glorfindel might word it, partly, as a renewed focus on the cooperative/shared aspects of the game.
Elrohir says, \"Yes, Brandebras, I think that\'s profoundly true and I\'m happy so many of you ARE here. :)\"
Elrohir says, \"As ever you word it better than me. :)\"
Elrohir says, \"Or at least more concisely. )\"
Elrohir says, \"Right, if that\'s settled for now, Amrundirn had a question?\"
Amrundirn says, \"Eh, yup.\"
Mennon says, \"I have noticed, that in some instances, it is difficult for newer players, or older players in a new culture to get involved, strictly due to their geographic location. For example, when I log on, I log on to RP, obviously. (I can idle in WoW) but in Gondor, for example, I seem to notice during my peak times, those that are logged in are mired in rl duties. so i idle. saying \'generate rp\' is good, and I would love to as I know many others would, but sometimes your just the only one rpable in that timeslot, and after a while it can become dicouraging. (I came into the meeting late, sorry if this has no relevance to anything.)\"
Mennon says, \"woops, speaking out of turn, five points from Mennon...\"
Logoz would like to come back to that, though. :)
Amrundirn says, \"Might not be entirely in the spirit of things here, but still. What\'s up with +times? :p\"
Glorfindel says, \"It\'s a little weird because of the server\'s move from Arizona to Illinois, I believe.\"
Amrundirn eouws.
Elrohir says, \"No, that\'s right, Mennon. We\'ve all been there (or are). What we\'re trying to say, I think, is it\'d be good if people kept trying despite those discouragements. I know it\'s hard. And I\'m not saying that people are to be *blamed* for not being able to find or organise RP. Or that we assume you don\'t want to RP.\"
Mennon says, \"Agreed, but it should always be present in the minds of locals when considering ic promotions and such especially since activity and rp are the basis for these choices.\"
Elrohir says, \"The problem with +times is that GT is now Illinois time, and the command thinks we\'re still in Arizona so it reads the system clock and sets that as Arizona time, I think. I\'m assuming it\'ll be fixed in the hopefully not too distant future.\"
Nomad says, \"heh.\"
Mennon says, \"I think that was something I was thinking of, since our younger players, part of their mindset might be cause and effect. rp well, and be acknowledged for it. inability to find rp partners is a sizeable roadblock. I found it while an LA in Mordor.\"
Amrundirn says, \"Awright. Thanks. (:\"
O\'Neil arrives from the OOC Room.
O\'Neil has arrived.
Glorfindel says, \"Mennon, I\'ll offer a bit of an opinion on that.\"
Elrohir says, \"Inability to find RP partners is a sizeable detriment to your enjoyment of the game and to the game itself, naturally. The problem is that it\'s a bit of a vicious circle: you don\'t find RP easily, so if you\'re a new player without much investment in the game so far, you lose interest and leave. That leaves fewer people and lowers retention of newbies whom we so desperately need, because I\'m personally convinced that our current slump has to do mostly with our incoming player numbers have gone down drastically. I\'m not sure how to solve that problem.\"
Mennon nods.
Elrohir blurts out opinions without announcing them, as she\'s less polite than Ama. )
Glorfindel says, \"Ha. )\"
Mennon says, \"That\'s why we love you/.\"
Morgaen chimes in briefly: I think these days there seem to be far more LAs living in non-US timezones than I can remember in the last 10 years (though I do have a crap memory). and those of us that are or have been in that position are really sympathetic to it. that\'s all.
Endaerion says, \"It\'s good if +rulers can \'overlap\' the timezones of their LAs.\"
Frarin says, \"As a side note to the new players dilemma, can I just ask if one of the admins or anyone really has a poster or something already made up for advertising? I\'d like to put up a few around my uni. I can make up my own, but if somebody already has one, that\'d be great.\"
Brandebras dares chime in too. I\'d suggest chatting to folk to find out when they\'re around, setting a schedule attrib (however vague) and encouraging others to, posting a \'scheduled RP time\' on the culture bboard whenever you can get at least one person to agree to log in at the same time as you ...? There\'s not much else we can do about being spread across the world
Nomad throws in two cents when it is time.
Glorfindel says, \"Regarding RP availability and acknowledgement resulting from RP... I would suggest opening a dialogue with your local staff, if you have a specific situational concern on the subject. From the point of view of a +ruler as much as an admin... no one can be everywhere at once, and I\'d like to think that most local staffers would be grateful for feedback, if you feel like someone is worthy of notice. Telling them about your concerns regarding activity and recognition, and making an effort to work cooperatively to figure out what can be done, would probably not go amiss.\"
Elrohir says, \"It is, Endaerion, though to be fair I wouldn\'t make that the first consideration when picking an LA, of course. :) It helps, though. Finding an LA is important in the early stages of MUSH life, after all.\"
Elrohir says, \"And I say that remembering having to wait two weeks to be titled because I\'m European and all my LAs as a newbie were on US time. I was involved by other players though so I was lucky and stayed. :)\"
Mennon agrees with Ting. \"When Di took me on as an LA in Mordor awhile back, it was a fringe benefit I was active on PST.\"
Glorfindel says, \"Also, I agree with your point about making an effort to schedule and announce RP once in awhile, Bandebras. I\'m certainly not saying that spontaneous RP is a lost cause, because I don\'t believe it is... but planning can be very helpful in getting people together to start with.\"
Glorfindel says, \"Also, I\'m getting a little confused. Is there anything on the subject of RP availability that we haven\'t addressed yet?\"
Nomad says, \"I know that I\'ve tried very hard to bring new players to the game from elsemu. I\'ve gotten a few to come, but none have really gotten engaged as of yet. And there\'s a lot of obstacles to overcome besides just finding RP and finding a player willing to help them get involved. Some people come from \"social MUSHes\" and don\'t even know how to RP. Some know how to RP, but don\'t know our RP customs. Some have completely different customs (posing in past tense, for example) and some just don\'t understand our theme. Its really hard for a new player, I think. And that\'s why it is hard to keep new players coming...provided you can ever get them to pcreate in the first place.\"
Flarin points to alts. If there is no RP in one culture, there might be some in another.
Mennon can\'t remember which culture it is. \"but someone has a +rp attribe set on their global, maybe we can use that chunk of code and set it for all cultures, and visitors to the ZMO... easier than mass pages.
Endaerion says, \"Ting: oh, certainly... it\'s just a nice luxery.\"
Mennon says, \"Alts are good, but sometimes you want to develop a specific character, not rp for rp\'s sake. though rp is ALWAYS good. :)\"
Mennon thinks he might be beating a dead horse, and respectfully sits in the corner and reads what everyone else has to say instead of spamming his own drivel into the room.
Elrohir says, \"That is true, Eruphel, and fine. Not everyone likes Elendor as a game, and that\'s okay. We\'ve never retained ALL our newbies. Some find it\'s too hard and give up, and that\'s perfectly fine: if you don\'t like a game there\'s no use spending what is after all your spare time on it. That doesn\'t, of course, mean that we shouldn\'t have made every effort to make life easy for them so we know that they only leave because they couldn\'t get used to our kind of playing. :)\"
Flarin says, \"I have always thought of a mush as a niche market anyways. There are only so many people who will be interested in this kind of game. Lots of people want WoW or playing their XBOX360. I know I have helped lots of newbies and tried to get them involved... but they don\'t stay. Some do, of course and of course all of these things that we have just talked about helps alot. But alot have no interest in staying.\"
Mennon admits almost using a day planner to break up WoW, Fallout 3 on 360, and El login times...
Flarin grins
Elrohir says, \"I\'ll not tell anyone if you don\'t tell anyone I used to use post-its on my monitor to remind me of things I needed to do on Elendor.\"
Glorfindel says, \"I still do that, only they\'re on my dashboard now. )\"
Endaerion says, \"Digital man, gotta go digital.\"
Mennon used to use timer windows here so it would pop up ah \'huh? I don\'t understand \'Log off, you have a raid in Ogrimmar in 20 minutes\'
Elrohir says, \"Right. I really like this kind of free-for-all discussion, but I think Lo had a comment or question.\"
Endaerion says, \"Although I did one time accidently include an outline for a TP on the back of my homework.\"
Mennon laughs
Morgaen handraises as he has a question after of Lo
Elrohir likes using pen and paper, Endaerion, though I use a laptop now so it\'d be too messy. Got dashboard-notes like Ama now, which doesn\'t work half so well. )
Logoz says, \"Actually, this touches on both Brand\'s and Mennon\'s questions, and I\'ll relate it to Mennon\'s first. I think that there are several ways of helping locals and players in general find/generate RP (and I have a number of suggestions on that front P), but on occasion they can be hampered by delays in MUSH processes. I dont mean that as a criticism of anyone, as workloads are far from small for you +admins we do realise, but it\'s possible some current policies were created for a larger playerbase that we have now, and are hindering where they used to help. Has any thought been given to streamlining some of the more mundane processes such as S&T, +language and RS requests? To hit back to Brand\'s point, it might be helpful to not just the +cultures but the +admins also if the local staff were able to take care of their own business in that respect (and I think the same is true of addressing RP levels) as the solutions have to be +culture specific anyway. Can I get your thoughts on this?\"
Elrohir smiles. Hmm.
Glorfindel says, \"Good question.\"
Elrohir says, \"I\'m trying to think how to phrase my thoughts in a way that people won\'t take the wrong way.\"
Nomad says, \"Wow. THat was really good, Lo.\"
Mennon is not used to Lo being so....Professional...
Logoz belches to restore the balance. )
Nomad says, \"whew.\"
Mennon remembers beating each other sheads in out of sheer rp boredom in the Uruk Camp )
Elrohir says, \"I think we\'re tossing a few ideas around about how we could be more efficient as we do realize it\'s sometimes quite frustrating for people if we\'re slow which I admit we frequently are, though we don\'t mean to be. However, as to your question about rulers or LAs taking care of S&T and the like themselves... I\'m sure the vast majority of people wouldn\'t abuse a power like that. But the CS does sort out who beats who in a fight. People have always complained (with reason or without) about how the CS disadvantaged them or their culture or their species. Right now, the admin in charge of S&T has an overview of the relative balance of feature S&Ts in all opposing cultures and will be able to avoid one culture to have a vast advantage over another by just giving all their players high stats, when another ruler might be more shy and modest and give their player lower stats.\"
Elrohir says, \"I think you also should give some thought to the idea that right now, it\'s easy just to say \"Yeah, I know, but what can I do, it\'s the admins\' decision\" when your players complain about being understatted. )\"
Logoz says, \"Do you -want- us to say that to them? )\"
Mennon says, \"How about \'suck it up\'?\"
Elrohir says, \"I don\'t want you to lie since the ruler does get considerable input into the S&T process.\"
Logoz does understand your concerns there, Ting. \"Is there any room for a compromise, though? Perhaps a weekly or monthly audit by the S&T Czar on every +culture\'s FCs etc?
Brandebras hmms. But +rulers are the ones who choose trainers, teachers, healers - could those jobs not be delegated down to the +ruler? Thus speeding feature/rs requests
Elrohir says, \"You mean could the ruler set up their own trainers and teachers?\"
Glorfindel says, \"There\'s still a considerable amount of thought given to cross-cultural balance for those bits, actually.\"
Mennon says, \"I think the nom process being sent to committee (which is how it is if I am not mistaken) it a good system, though admittedly it does take some time.\"
Logoz says, \"In truth I was thinking more along the same lines as Brand, rather than FCs.\"
Elrohir says, \"It\'s essentially the same actually.\"
Elrohir says, \"The commands we use to set up +trainers etc. are the same we use to set up features\' stats or languages. There\'s one more thought here, though (or two):\"
Endaerion says, \"Does +trainer/+teacher requests really steal that much bandwidth from feature requests, etc?\"
Logoz says, \"Would a periodical audit help the +admins keep track of +cultures or +rulers who might be (wittingly or unwittingly) stacking their combat deck?\"
Elrohir says, \"You mean more so than just doing it themselves?\"
Logoz says, \"An hour set aside per week/fortnight to focus on the task might be more efficient than an Inbox.\"
Logoz says, \"That\'s musing aloud, though, not an opinion.\"
Glorfindel says, \"Hold that though, Raugsaul? Until we\'re past this one?\"
Nomad waits. :)
Elrohir says, \"I\'m sure most rulers are very responsible people who don\'t abuse any of their powers (which are already very considerable). But we HAVE had complaints about rulers before, which were justified what is more, and I think if we were to give rulers this sort of power we would have to be far more careful about who we choose to be rulers because we would have to be absolutely certain that they wouldn\'t abuse the power they have, in the interest of all the other rulers and their players.\"
[Mara(#22296)] \"What about giving the authority to the +admin in charge of the culture grouping?
Elrohir says, \"I don\'t want you to get the wrong idea here: implicitely, we do trust our rulers, with quite a lot, and I think anyone who\'s seen at least me deal with complaints about rulers will know that we support the rulers at least officially for a considerable time. But even in my opinion, I think there is potential for abuse of power. If we choose badly, people will suffer. If we can\'t choose at all, people will suffer. We don\'t want them to.\"
Endaerion says, \"It\'s an oversight issue.\"
Nomad says, \"Couldn\'t you delegate the power, with oversight priveleges?\"
Nomad slow.
Endaerion says, \"In order to attain consistency.\"
Elrohir says, \"It\'s an idea, whoever that was ), although I think we don\'t necessarily envisage the culture groupings to have admin rulers as a necessity indefinitely. We do for now, because they\'re new and we think the mortal rulers may need or want support and help, but I think at some point it might no longer be necessary, maybe. This is just my opinion, though, not an official statement or anything.\"
Nomad is eruphel
Endaerion says, \"Do people feel that +trainer/bit requests really take too much time?\"
Elrohir says, \"I know, there was a statement without a name next to it. I was referring to that.\"
Nomad says, \"k\"
Logoz says, \"It\'s come up before, yes, Lid.\"
Endaerion says, \"Because I\'ve never really experienced that. I think with, say, FC bits, there is a slight issue of the visibility of deserving players to the nom process, but that\'s much further upstream.\"
Elrohir says, \"I think S&T has usually been one of those jobs that comes up as problematic quite often, because it has a direct impact on something people care about.\"
Elrohir says, \"Ie, if the admin in charge of it isn\'t sharp, then people are bothered. Which is understandable.\"
Logoz says, \"My question is really aimed at altering the manner of regulation, rather than deregulating.\"
Elrohir says, \"I understand that, Lo, I\'m trying to express the opinion that altering the manner of regulation might result in deregulation.\"
Logoz says, \"Do think there is any merit in having audits/checks on a periodic basis rather than just dealing with requests as they arrive (or prioritizing them)?\"
Elrohir says, \"You mean giving rulers the authority and then auditing?\"
Logoz noddles.
Elrohir says, \"I do not.\"
Logoz says, \"Cool.\"
Elrohir says, \"Although...\"
Elrohir says, \"My main point was that I thought there\'s not really anything to stop a ruler who\'s wittingly giving his players an advantage from just re-setting that player\'s stats before the audit. On the other hand, we do have +log.\"
Logoz nods. \"I think the ways of checking up on stuff like that are myriad.\"
Elrohir says, \"This is assuming the worst and looking to the future, of course. I\'m not implying suspicion of any present ruler at all.\"
Elrohir says, \"Except maybe Ama.\"
Elrohir says, \"She\'s very shifty.\"
Glorfindel says, \"HEY.\"
Glorfindel says, \"I am SPOTLESS.\"
Logoz never took it another way. :) \"I deal with hypothesis also.\"
Elrohir says, \"I just want it to be very clear. :) Unfortunately after seeing things go wrong a few times you try to think of the worst-case scenario to prevent it, which is not always a very pleasant thing to do.\"
Logoz says, \"Better safe than sorry, true. I\'m answered, thank you.\"
Elrohir says, \"Anyway, I think on the whole, the problem might be shifted, rather than solved. If a ruler goes inactive the repercussions to the culture would be even greater, and we\'d take longer to reappoint a new ruler. It\'s just as likely as the S&T admin going inactive. :)\"
Elrohir says, \"Anyway, I believe Morgaen had the next question or comment.\"
Elrohir says, \"Which hopefully will be easier to answer. )\"
Morgaen laughs. Let me remember it first. )
Morgaen says, \"I\'m not sure how important it is, so if other people have more specific questions I\'m happy for them to jump in.\"
Endaerion has disconnected.
Endaerion heads back to Middle-earth.
Mennon has disconnected.
Mennon heads back to Middle-earth.
Glorfindel says, \"Whatever it is, odds are someone else is wondering the same thing. :)\"
Elrohir says, \"That is true. I\'m constantly wondering, for one.\"
Elrohir says, \"You wouldn\'t like to look inside my head.\"
Glorfindel has been there. \"Not pretty.\"
Curugil arrives from the OOC Room.
Curugil has arrived.
Curugil says, \"Is anyboy going to be logging the town hall?\"
Glorfindel says, \"I will be, yes.\"
Hildis arrives from the OOC Room.
Hildis has arrived.
Curugil says, \"groovy\"
Mara has one more question, if that\'s ok?
Morgaen says, \"Okie. Well, this may not be a question you\'re able to answer yet. Not because its incendiary or anything, but just because it may be the object of +admin discussion and thus too close to incidental gossip as you mentioned before. Or maybe it\'s just too big. But I for one was a fan of the cultural restructure that happened a while ago, and I\'m wondering whether you see it as the beginning in a series of gradual changes (acknowleding the great deal of patience and thought needed to introduce any MUSH-wide changes to a game of this size) in order to adapt to the changing nature/climate of Elendor, or are you pretty happy (as much as one can be) with how things are in terms of the MUSH\'s structure? Do you guys see this as part of a step-by-step series of improvements, or one tactical choice that is all done and complete?\"
Glorfindel says, \"Sure. :) Amrundirn, did you have another after Morgaen\'s, or am I making that up?\"
Amrundirn says, \"That\'s all in your head, I\'m afraid. (\"
Elrohir says, \"To clarify, are you hinting at whether or not we want to merge cultures?\"
Amrundirn says, \"Mara does, though.\"
Elrohir says, \"So does Raugsaul. :)\"
Morgaen says, \"Nope.\"
Glorfindel says, \"Though this is completely apart from anything specific, I personally think it would be a mistake to say that we\'re \"done\".\"
Morgaen says, \"Though maybe hinting out of curiosity whether you do plan to continue to adapt/alter (without asking for specifics). I promise I don\'t have a vested interest in this question. :P Just a curiosity.\"
Eirdis arrives from the OOC Room.
Eirdis has arrived.
Morgaen nods to Ama
Nomad says, \"I don\'t think I even understood Morgaen\'s question. :P\"
Glorfindel says, \"And I may be going off on my own limb a bit. Surely Ting will swat me down if so. ) But self-evaluation is always important. Otherwise, it\'d be hard to imagine what we\'re all doing here. :)\"
Elrohir says, \"I think we\'re not really assuming that this is a solution that will solve all problems and therefore we\'re done. It\'s a solution to one specific problem and I think as such it\'s more or less working, so I don\'t think it\'s a starting point, so to speak. I\'m sure we\'ll continue to try to find ways of how to improve the game, because that\'s our job, and also because we want to.\"
Elrohir says, \"So what I mean is, we don\'t have an agenda of which this is only the first piece, but I\'m sure we\'ll adapt and improve where we can if we think it\'s worth it. I\'m glad you like the restructure, though. :)\"
Elrohir says, \"Is that an answer to your question?\"
Morgaen says, \"yep, exactly what I was asking.\"
Morgaen says, \"Thanks. :)\"
Elrohir says, \"Right! Raugsaul, I think. :)\"
Elrohir says, \"... or Mara, if Raugsaul has gone really idle instead of just listening avidly.\"
Raugsaul says, \"Eh, nevermind on my question. It\'s sort of an obvious thing.\"
Glorfindel says, \"Are you sure? We\'re getting paid by the hour. )\"
Nomad grins.
Logoz says, \"in hot chocolate, no less..\"
Glorfindel says, \"Ha.\"
Elrohir says, \"I\'d like to be paid a late-night bonus, too.\"
O\'Neil has disconnected.
Elrohir says, \"Alright, if Raugsaul is sure, we\'ll have Mara, then?\"
O\'Neil heads back to Middle-earth.
Mara wonders what the admins see as the biggest MUSH problems
Glorfindel says, \"If you change your mind later, Raugsaul, wave your hand and we\'ll put you back in.\"
Elrohir says, \"I think that\'ll depend on which admin you ask.\"
Glorfindel says, \"Indeed.\"
Raugsaul nods
Mara smiles. \"Well, you two then.\"
Elrohir says, \"Personally I think it\'s a question that\'s similar to \"What are the greatest challenges facing the world today\" because there\'s more than one answer and many of the issues are interlinked and interrelated. For me...\"
Elrohir says, \"I have two pet issues that are in MY opinion at the source of most other problems.\"
Glorfindel will offer hers next if they aren\'t duplicates.
Elrohir says, \"The first is the fact that we don\'t have a very great influx of new players anymore. I\'ve said that before. I think we\'ve always lost players: to say that this is a unique situation now is not accurate in my opinion. The thing is that we notice it more, because there aren\'t new players coming in to replace those people who get bored or disappointed or leave for other reasons. Therefore, the fact that there are so few newbies, and the fact that those newbies don\'t have many peers they can identify with and make friends amongst (which I think is important, because I think many of them prefer someone else who\'s clueless to even the friendliest LA), is in my opinion one of the gravest issues, especially since I don\'t have a ready solution for what is to be done about it.\"
Nomad has some comments on that.
Logoz does also.
Glorfindel says, \"Shall we hear them before we move on to the next then, Ting?\"
Elrohir says, \"But I\'m nearly done with the next. :)\"
Glorfindel says, \"Oh. Fiiiine. )\"
Flarin says, \"Do we think we will get an influx of new people when the Hobbit movies come out?\"
Glorfindel says, \"I would hope we\'d have as much a shot at that as we did with the past movies, but I don\'t know if we should rest on that.\"
Elrohir says, \"I think the Hobbit will take some time to come out. It might be a bit late by then.\"
Logoz nods to that.
Elrohir says, \"Oh well actually, let\'s hear the comments on the newbies before my second point.\"
Nomad says, \"This is a perception that is not just on Elendor, but across all MUSHes, that the genre is dying. I don\'t believe the genre is dying, and I think there will always be a niche for MUSHes, just like there will always be a niche for books in a movie and TV age. Problem is that getting new players to Elendor is a macrocosm of getting player X to make an alt in Harad. Its taking from the same overall playerbase. That\'s better than nothing...if we can get new players coming from other MUSHes, that\'s a really good thing. Advertising, and maybe advertising recent changes that were maybe the cause of some people leaving would be good. But I would also suggest that advertising outside of the MUSH circles would be good too. I came to Elendor the first time after finding a link from a LOTR site. In the case of Elendor, that could be enough, but I think MUSHing would have an appeal to any websites that have mutual storytelling or amateur author themes to them.\"
Raugsaul heads back to Middle-earth.
Raugsaul has left.
Elrohir says, \"I completely agree.\"
Elrohir says, \"Personally, mind.\"
Glorfindel says, \"Absolutely.\"
Elrohir says, \"Lo?\"
Logoz says, \"Two secs\"
Elrohir says, \"I\'ll give you three.\"
Nomad fades into the background as ICness takes over.
Bifur arrives from the OOC Room.
Bifur has arrived.
Elrohir says, \"Very laudable.\"
Logoz says, \"Unfortunately I disagree with a couple of thoughts there. I think the lack influx of new blood on the MUSH is entirely beyond our control here, because the internet has, in effect, moved on. There was a time (a blessed time, before MMORPGs) where MUSHing was pretty much the coolest form of online gaming. Elendor attracted both players who wished to recreate and expand upon Middle-Earth as presented in the canon, and those who simply wanted to get their rocks off in a fantasy setting. There is nothing wrong with either motivation, but I think we can attribute the loss of the Rocks Off crowd to the development of other types of online enjoyment. As an extension of that opinion, I dont believe that the new Hobbit movie will bring a new crowd -- they\'ll find the MMORPGs first and probably never consider text-based gaming. It\'s true that advertising among crowds that value creative writing may yield some good results, but other than that I think we are these days left with those who already (and still) play on MUSHes. I dont believe that view is defeatist... I think it\'s just analysis of the evidence. If I\'m correct, then the question which presents itself is \'how can we impulse more MUSHers to stay here?\' By extension, the next question is \'what have people traditionally stayed for\'?\"
Eirdis pipes up, \"\'Scuse my language, but, in my case, the damn-amazing RP. Shout-outs to the Erebor club.\"
Eirdis hides in obscurity, now. ^.^
Logoz says, \"That\'s a damn good reason. :)\"
Glorfindel says, \"Well, I think regardless of whether or not you (general you) think we\"
Glorfindel says, \"Bah. Enter.\"
Elrohir says, \"That is one question. But I would argue that we will never keep everyone indefinitely. Also, that it\'s very unusual for people to keep playing the same game for many years. I think Elendor is very special in getting (and expecting to get, since history says we will) people to play for years or decades.\"
Elrohir says, \"I\'ll also say that I don\'t think one effort precludes the other.\"
Logoz says, \"I agree. So I think we should look at what the reason for our previous succes might me\"
Elrohir smiles.
Elrohir says, \"To be honest, for me, I\'ve gotten a HUGE boost out of a large group of people who started playing long after me and their enthusiasm. Ama here was one of that group, actually.\"
Bifur says, \"I will say this... and I\'m sure there are plenty who would disagree, but the thing that has driven me away from here in the past is the tight control over things. Cultural admins controlling the flow of RP in a culture, reining in creativity because it didn\'t go through \'proper channels\', bureaucracy slowing everything down, etc. But hey, I\'m libertarian )\"
Elrohir says, \"That\'s a little beside the point though. My original point was twofold. One: I personally think the lack of influx from new players will mean over short or long that the older players won\'t have anyone, or at best anyone NEW, to RP with.\"
Flarin says, \"I have stayed for 3 reasons. 1) Habit. 2) The feeling of community and talking to people I consider friends or at least people to talk to. So, the social outlet. 3) The rp I got when I first started here got me hooked into the story.\"
Glorfindel is taking careful notes on this. \"You\'re all on the record now.\" )
Nomad agrees with bifur.
Glorfindel says, \"In a non-threatening way, of course.\"
Eirdis wonders what Thari would\'ve said tonight.
Flarin is scared by Ama.
Bifur says, \"Thari would\'ve said... Bifur is 100% correct :D\"
Elrohir says, \"Two: It\'s not true that nobody\'s ever left before now. We\'ve had plenty of people leaving the game before. The difference being that there were always people to take their places. Now there aren\'t. I was asked for my opinion, and I did say that this is MY opinion, and that this is an issue where people will have vastly different opinions.\"
Eirdis says, \"Er... I\'ll let Thari say what she will when she gets here, meeting or no meeting, thanks. )\"
Logoz grins. \"I wonder what Henleg would have said.\"
Elrohir says, \"Then I said that I\'m not saying that one effort precludes another. Ie, just because I think getting new players is very important, I\'m not saying keeping old players is unimportant.\"
Elrohir says, \"Which about sums up my opinion.\"
Glorfindel says, \"And along those lines, no one is saying that one source of recruitment is valid and the other isn\'t.\"
Curugil has disconnected.
Curugil heads back to Middle-earth.
Eirdis says, \"Gim-Lee would\'ve smacked some happy into the gloom-and-doomers, if you\'ll pardon my saying so. )\"
Glorfindel says, \"Though I realize the question has shifted away from that point, somewhat.\"
Bifur says, \"Going along with that, though... just getting them here isn\'t enough. They need to be kept here early on. They are all related points\"
Logoz says, \"I\'ll wait for Gimli to speak for himself, meeting or no meeting )\"
Elrohir says, \"I know, Bifur. I said that before, too.\"
Eirdis chuckles, and awwrs, was quoted! ^^
Logoz says, \"Irony is awesome. :)\"
Eirdis says, \"And convenient.\"
Elrohir says, \"So maybe I\'ll just make my second point now then. )\"
Glorfindel nods. \"I think we could have an entire Town Hall Meeting just on this issue. ) Who knows, maybe we should.\"
Elrohir will just copy-paste what she\'s written up earlier since it\'s late and I\'m lazy.
Hildis says, \"So, to say the obvious: getting new players and keeping them. Advertising and then what?\"
Elrohir says, \"The second is a sense of apathy that I think can be found in many areas of the game. I\'m not trying to accuse here I think most people are doing the best they can, and many are still very enthusiastically RPing and clearly, you all turning up shows dedication and involvement and I\'m grateful for that. But I do think the general... shall I call it energy, that used to pervade the MUSH is reduced. People seem to rely on other people to fix issues, there seems to be a lot of complaining going on, and even that is sometimes laced with \"But nevermind about my specific issues, I\'ll just be vague about it and not bother you\". I\'m not saying the admins are exempt from this. On the contrary. I\'m saying that this is getting to me, for one. It\'s very discouraging. That, from my perspective, is a very great problem, and I\'m at a complete loss for a solution there.\"
Logoz says, \"Retention?\"
Logoz raises a hand, regarding your latest Ting.
*** A couple of minutes missed, disconned ***
Elrohir says, \"While we wait, did that answer my part in your question, Mara? :)\"
Logoz says, \"I dont think you\'re alone in feeling that, way. Very much the contrary, in fact. However, that\'s hopefully what these meetings can help with: finding solutions. :) To do that, we do need specifics, from all sides. The only worry there is that if people disagree on specifics, it can turn nasty, and create Sides, which is extraordinarily counterproductive, in my opinion. There\'s no concrete way to nip that in the bud, but it might help if we could create a forum for players to proffer suggestions without throwing in complaints or personal attacks. Future BB was a grand idea, but it often opened the door for the negative as well as the positive. Would a more structured forum (perhaps more frequent meetings, regulated by an attendant +admin) be useful, do you think?\"
Mara says, \"Yes, it idd\"
Glorfindel says, \"More frequent meetings are something we\'re hoping to do, yes.\"
Glorfindel says, \"Short answer. )\"
Logoz grins. \"Can we get specifics? P\"
Glorfindel says, \"Well... what specifics are you hoping for?\"
Logoz says, \"Frequency, location, structure of meetings, rules for conduct, etc?\"
Glorfindel says, \"Well, this first one was something of an experiment to that effect.\"
Glorfindel says, \"What I would personally like to do from here...\"
Nomad says, \"Roleplay workshops would also be neat. :)\"
Elrohir says, \"I think nipping things turning nasty in the bud is easier if you KNOW that things are about to turn nasty and one side doesn\'t just gnaw at things in silence. It usually takes a little consideration from both sides.\"
Elrohir says, \"I was going to ask at the end of the meeting if people liked it and would like a repeat and if so how soon, etc. But since I\'m fading fast and it\'s nearly midnight for me, I guess I can ask that now, while Ama voices her preferences. :)\"
Glorfindel says, \"...Is gather feedback on how much you all have gotten out of this (once it\'s over, of course), assess which topics might warrant more specific, in-depth consideration and discussion, and... yes, things like frequency, though that would depend somewhat on when people are available to run. As far as rules of conduct, I\'m not particularly opposed to any being instated, but I also got the feeling that this was going pretty well without them so far.\"
Elrohir laughs. We really are different people, I promise.
Mara thinks it might be good to have a way to put in questions, anonymously or otherwise, prior to a meeting?
Logoz says, \"Whatever. You\'ve wangled two +admin bits in a soft coup!\"
Mara says, \"for those who can\'t attend\"
Glorfindel laughs.
Elrohir says, \"I missed being a royal.\"
Glorfindel says, \"Good note, Mara.\"
Jiatl has disconnected.
Jiatl heads back to Middle-earth.
Bifur nods to Mara, \"I don\'t care what anyone thinks of my questions, but some might\" )
Elrohir says, \"The thing about anonymous questions is that they kind of defeat the purpose of the meeting, which is to establish communication.\"
Elrohir says, \"More so than answer questions, really.\"
Elrohir says, \"If one side refuses to be known, it\'s difficult to communicate, though easy to just talk.\"
Bifur says, \"How does it defeat the purpose of the meeting to bring up an issue? Does it need to have a name attached to it?\"
Elrohir points to her statement about communication above.
Morgaen heads back to Middle-earth.
Morgaen has left.
Eirdis returns, unidling. Reads the above.
Bifur shrugs, \"If you require a name, you\'re stifling communication of a sort\"
Elrohir says, \"Oh really.\"
Elrohir says, \"There is a method of asking questions or making suggestions anonymously +suggest will take care of that for you.\"
Nomad says, \"Heh. I used to work for a newspaper. We weren\'t allowed to ask who a caller was, even for passing a call to someone else, for fear of scaring off an anonymous caller or whatever.\"
Bifur says, \"Look, I understand that you\'d prefer to have a conversation with the person asking the question. But IMO, far better to bring up the issue anonymously than not to have it brought up.\"
Elrohir says, \"I didn\'t say that I won\'t answer anonymous questions. I said it\'s more difficult to do so.\"
Logoz says, \"Perhaps have a session dedicated to discussing the recent +suggestions?\"
Elrohir says, \"I\'m frankly a little stung by the implication that I\'m stifling communication since I\'ve called this meeting in an effort to *increase* communication. So I may be a little short, but I think my point still stands.\"
Elrohir says, \"I would do that, Lo, if I had ever seen +suggest used.\"
Logoz says, \"Promotional material!\"
Bifur says, \"Even more difficult if the question is never brought up though. I don\'t think there\'s anything I\'d be uncomfortable asking anyone in a MUSH meeting. But I\'ve got a bit more experience here than most ) Just saying better to have the question asked anonymously than not at all.\"
Elrohir says, \"I think I\'ve seen it used once in the last seven years.\"
Logoz says, \"Has there ever been a forum for addressing +suggestions?\"
Elrohir says, \"I think you\'re preaching to the choir, Bifur.\"
Logoz says, \"If not, I would hazard a guess as to why it aint used much )\"
Elrohir says, \"That is your right, Lo. My opinion is very different on that matter, but we can agree to disagree on this.\"
Bifur says, \"I didn\'t say *you* were stifling communication. I said if you (the admins) require a name to ask a question, that\'s stifling communication.\"
Logoz says, \"I\'m just saying: If people have a reasonable expectation of a +suggestion being considered or discusses with some measure of disclosure to the playerbase, it might inspire usage.\"
Elrohir says, \"What about +suggestion makes you think it wouldn\'t be considered?\"
Elrohir says, \"And again, Bifur. I said before and I\'ll say it again: I will answer questions that are asked anonymously, but I think it would be easier (or if you prefer EVEN easier) to answer them if I got a chance to talk to the person face-to-face.\"
Logoz says, \"I\'ve only just discovered its existence, so I only go by you saying no-one uses it.\"
Glorfindel says, \"So am I right in assuming that your issue, Lo, is more about the disclosure than the suggestion itself?\"
Mara suspects that a downside to anonymous, for both player and admin, isthat it\'s hard to know if a +suggest was considered, found to be undesirable or impractical or \'not now\', and put aside, or not considered at all.
Logoz says, \"Not, essentially, no Ama. Lemme take a sec to type what I\'m getting at.\"
Mara notes, though, that that can also be an issue with non-anonymous suggestions.
Thranduil arrives from the OOC Room.
Thranduil has arrived.
Glorfindel nods. \"The issue of disclosure is a tough one, Mara. I think Ting\'s answer up a few pages says it better than I could.\"
Glorfindel says, \"It requires a little good faith, of course, which I hope having these meetings will help with.\"
Bifur says, \"So there\'s no problem with an anonymous question then? And +suggest would be the best means for that?\"
Elrohir says, \"Getting someone else to ask the question would be the best means, I think.\"
Mara nods. \"True. Just putting out there that if people don\'t know what those higher than them are thinking (and goodness knows I\'ve had this pointed out to me as something I have to be good about as a +ruler), it can make it seem as though they\'re putting ideas into the ether.\"
Elrohir says, \"I promise I won\'t ask who asked.\"
Glorfindel wonders. \"Are there any other overall questions out there, before we get too heavily into procedures for next time?\"
Bifur says, \"Getting someone else to ask isn\'t really a good solution, IMO. That presupposes that someone else is willing to do what the questioner is unwilling to do\"
Nomad says, \"Good faith and trust between admin and playerbase are always important. Perhaps of the utmost importance, for everything else stems from that.\"
Elrohir says, \"That may be true but I think it would be truly depressing if nobody felt they could ask a question.\"
Logoz is done, if this is a good moment?
Glorfindel says, \"Hang on one sec, Lo. So... is that a \"no\" to any other general questions for Ting and I? If so, we can keep going on the procedural stuff.\"
Elrohir says, \"I\'d like to note nobody has answered *my* question, too. :)\"
Logoz says, \"Which?\"
Thranduil says, \"I missed it, I\'ll answer!\"
Thranduil can\'t let Bifur be the only cranky old dwarf in the room, after all.
Elrohir says, \"Did you like the meeting, would you like to have others and if so at what intervals do you think you\'d like them?\"
Logoz says, \"That\'s what I typed )\"
Elrohir says, \"I\'m sorry, I missed it. Will scroll up.\"
Glorfindel would also like to entertain suggestions for potential topics. \"Not because we\'re going to force a strict agenda on everyone all the time - this free-flowing thing has brought up some good issues - but it\'s clear there are a lot of things that can\'t be dealt with quite as briefly.\"
Thranduil says, \"Oh, I missed the meeting. But while I do think that having meetings like this is valuable, I think it is more important for the game administration to be accessible all the time, and to take an active role in playing the game. This is not to say that anyone here does not do this only things that I have seen over the .. well, since 1995 or so.\"
Bifur says, \"I\'ll answer for Thranduil. It was catchy, but ya can\'t really dance to it. Seriously though, I do think that such meetings do provide something valuable, even if it\'s just access to the admins in a public setting. Can\'t hurt.\"
Logoz says, \"Like Utah, I am very much a fan of these types of meetings, and would like to thank both Ama and Ting for taking the time to host this. It\'s very encouraging, as a player, to have that kind of commitment to our thoughts and ideas. I\'d really like to see more of these on a regular basis, but I do also think novelty has a way of wearing off if there is little structure or expecation as to what the meetings will achieve. Seeing as we have +suggestion, I would suggest a fortnightly (or whatever, so long as it is regular) meeting regulated and hosted by an +admin in which the recent +suggestions will be discussed, along with anything that comes up as a result. That is, the meeting doesn\'t have to revolve around the +suggestions, but is the appropriate time for dealing with them. Encourage players to use the +suggestion system for this very purpose (which then gives them the option of remaining anonymous) -- you could even have it coded so that a bulletin board has a shortlist of the topics that will be covered. Something like that gives people an expectation of what their +suggestions will achieve. If no-one currently uses the +suggestion system, I honestly reckon it\'s because no-one thinks there is a point in doing so. Give them something to believe in, on that score.\"
Thranduil says, \"Nobody knows how long a fortnight is, Lo.\"
Logoz says, \"Yanks.\"
Frarin does, yo.
Hildis Me, too.
Eirdis does.. Is Canadian.
Thranduil says, \"Okay, Frarin. You know what a fortnight is. I, on the other hand, love America.\"
Frarin laughs. Tis true, I\'ve abandoned her, alas.
Thranduil says, \"You know, I didn\'t find out +suggest existed until like, 2003.\"
Elrohir smiles. I\'d actually much rather they believed in suggesting things by +mail.
Bifur +suggests Thranduil restock the wine
Thranduil says, \"Okay, but you have to allow for the fact that some people will not want their names attached to the topic.\"
Elrohir says, \"That\'s why +suggest exists, I believe.\"
Thranduil says, \"Clearly that is the value to +suggest.\"
Logoz says, \"Personally, I\'d sign my +suggestions, but then I dont mind people knowing what I think.\"
Thranduil says, \"Also, technically, using +suggest IS using mail\"
Elrohir says, \"I didn\'t say +suggest is useless. I said I\'d *rather* people trusted us enough to speak to us directly.\"
Elrohir says, \"I know that.\"
Thranduil says, \"So everybody wins\"
Logoz says, \"Trust comes with satisfaction. :)\"
Glorfindel says, \"Okay. Clearly we need to come up with mechanisms for people who A) can\'t attend or B) don\'t want to speak up by name to participate in these meetings. We get it.\"
Eirdis heads back to Middle-earth.
Eirdis has left.
Elrohir says, \"Right. And since I really need to get going, I\'ll say thanks for coming to all of you now and we\'ll be talking with the rest of the admins about having another one of these at some point. :)\"
Glorfindel says, \"I can honestly say that I don\'t the best way to solve B) yet, be it something more structured like Lo\'s suggesting, or a general note, but suffice it say that we\'ll figure out a way.\"
Glorfindel says, \"Thank you, Ting. :)\"
Logoz says, \"You guys rock. :) Thanks again for taking the time to field our belligerance.\"
Glorfindel says, \"Now, hrm.\"
Elrohir says, \"It can be if I\'m not the one doing it, sure. :)\"
Thranduil says, \"And no more having it on my birthday\"
Thranduil says, \"For at least a year\"
Glorfindel says, \"Anyone else have any opinions they\'d like to share on how these are held, and what amount of structure in terms of topic is most preferable? On the last point, honeslty, I suspect will end up with a little bit of both.\"
Nomad says, \"Happy birthday!\"
Glorfindel says, \"And yeah, Brand, we\'ll try to switch the times up. :) There were several people who mentioned not being able to make it.\"
Logoz says, \"Last question...\"
Nomad says, \"Could we change the +poll code to accept a /slightly/ longer message?\"
Thranduil says, \"No.\"
Nomad :(
Thranduil says, \"Sorry.\"
Glorfindel says, \"As a highly touchy-feely admin with almost no concept of code, Nomad, I\'m going to decline answering that. )\"
[+POLL] Announcement: Bifur(#6709) has changed the poll to: Request denied
Logoz says, \"In your educated opinion, do Balrogs have wings?\"
Thranduil says, \"Can they speak Khuzdul?\"
Bifur says, \"And wear mithril?\"
Glorfindel says, \"This Balrog question clearly requires its own meeting due to the voluminous nature of corresponding opinions.\"
Logoz pencils it in.
Thranduil says, \"Are my ears pointy?\"
Glorfindel says, \"Do you have a mirror?\"
Nomad says, \"Where do I rest my head when I log off?\"
Logoz says, \"Does Thranduil speak with a French accent?\"
Thranduil says, \"It just says something about elder flame and ancient knowledge when I look into it\"
Glorfindel says, \"Yes, and as far as I\'m concerned, he\'s greyish-green, too.\"
Bifur says, \"Thranduil speaks with a German accent. Didn\'t you see the animated movie?\"
Glorfindel says, \"My childhood tells me so.\"
Logoz says, \"I always listen to childhood.\"
Logoz vanishes!
Logoz heads back to Middle-earth.
Logoz has left.
Hildis heads back to Middle-earth.
Hildis has left.
Nomad says, \"Bye.\"
Nomad has disconnected.
[+RR] Nomad is whisked away to the Recruiting Room.
Frarin heads back to Middle-earth.
Frarin has left.
Glorfindel says, \"Well... thank you all for coming, then. :) We\'ll be doing this again, so watch for more information in the very near future concerning the when and where. And in the meantime, I\'ll open my mailbox up to any lingering thoughts that might pop up before the next one. Please don\'t make me regret that. )\"
Glorfindel will bring the pain.
Flarin will bring the cookies.
Amrundirn blinks, \"Cookies?!\"
Bifur heads back to Middle-earth.
Bifur has left.
Amrundirn says, \"Anyhoot. Informative. Thanks for sharing. (:\"
Amrundirn heads back to Middle-earth.
Amrundirn has left.
We hope you enjoyed your stay in Middle-earth.
Come back soon!
*** DISCONNECTED ***