(Archive) - DA Debate Competition

Table code is in effect here. Type \'thelp\' for information.

Following the judges, Lady Gweneth along with her retainers enter the parlour. She takes a seat at the table opposite Thorondur and his... eagles. She sits alone, for now, gazing across at Thorondur. No heavy tomes sit on her table, indeed, it is quite bare except for a tablet and a quill, with a bottle of ink near it.

Sirion looks to his right and left to the other judges and nods. He then reaches over and rings a bell.

Lothiriel steals in quietly, glancing about and casting a smile towards Thorondur at the table as she finds a suitably comfortable seat from which to watch the debate.

Confident and level, as is his wont, the Lord Girithlin decants the water at his table into several crystalline goblets, sharing them around with his team. Giving their Bragollach opponent a languid once over, he spies the familiar figure of the Princess stealing into the chamber.

His own goblet Thorondur raises in subtle salute, and takes from it an idle sip.

Sirion rises at the approach of the Princess, \"Ah. Princess Lothiriel, I bid thee good eve.\" He then bows to her low, \"Perhaps you would care to join me in judging the debate tonight?\"

A large fat man that has not yet been seen on the grounds of the tournament comes from the direction of the entrence. He matter-of-factly walks towards the table where the Flames sit and positions himself next to Gweneth. \"I\'m Falnan!\" He exclaims to the entire place, as if they were all his audience, and his alone. \"I\'m sure you\'ve heard of me from Frignor, det ol\' fool!\" He laughs loudly, and pats his stomach, never lowering the tone of his voice, but rather increasing it.

Earedail walks through the gallery door and quietly takes a seat to the back, he is wearing much nicer clothing and he seems interested in what is going on. He gets up as he realizes things are getting ready to get started and walks over to the judges, speaking quietly \"I believe I need to be included in the debates.\"

Sirion nods at Earedail and says, \"Aye, your team shall go in the next round. In the meantime Master, have a seat and make yourself comfortable.\"

Lothiriel inclines her head, \"I would be honored, Lord Sirion,\" she replies to his request, and glides towards the judges seats.

Hrethawyr walks in shortly after Falnan, trailing in his wake as the man makes his progress to Gweneth\'s side. He pauses near them, nodding politely to each and takes a seat near Falnan.

Gweneth motions to the table, \"Both of you, have a seat, we have to win a debate.\"

Sirion then takes his seat and glances out at Gweneth and Thorondur. He speaks formally, \"We shall begin. The statement to be debated is: The execution of a man who begs mercy, yet is of the enemy, is a justifiable deed.\"

Hrethawyr stands again and bows to the judges quickly, \"Hrethawyr of Rohan. . to be included also.\" then he reseats himself, and looks toward Gweneth.

Meanwhile, the Celibtherein -- Thorondur\'s \'Silver Eagles\' -- await the commencement of the debate. Quietly, kept to themselves, they make no outward show of emotion. A formidable facade, perhaps? Or simply a cool neutrality.

Sirion looks to Gweneth, \"The Lady Gweneth and her team shall argue in support of this statement.\" He then flashes a look over at Thorondur, \"The Lord Girithlin and his team shall oppose this statement.\"

Sirion looks now to both of the captains, \"Are you prepared?\"

And as the princess, in comes the squire, Findon, perhaps not as quiet but indeed with a few glances. He offers a nod to the Knight Herald at the table and his team, and he tries to find a similar spot even as the princess does, but not a seat. Instead he take place beside the door, where he has free sight and able to hear the discussion.

A faint inclination of his head is Thorondur\'s answer. He looks to the Lady Eowyn of Rohan -- apparently, his partner and teammate in this endeavour -- and nods a second time to Sirion.

The trio at the table of the flames at the word of Sirion begin to whisper amongst themselves. At Sirion\'s question, \"We should be in a few minutes. Falnan has decided to give our opening statement. Allow him a chance to prepare his thoughts as he just arrived.\"

With a slight but discernible grimace at this prospect of delay, the Knight-Herald sips of his water, and leans to his right, whispering to the White Lady behind a cupped hand.

Sirion nods and then says, \"Very well. We shall begin as soon as Falnan is ready with his introductory statements. No more than two minutes.\"

Sirion then reaches over to an hourglass on his desk and flips it over.

Earedail glances around and then notices Dania, moving over towards her, he stands beside her and speaking quietly, \"Ahh m\'lady. The Lord Angbor said you would be here to aid me in fighting this battle. I hope your wits are sharper htan mine for i fear our foes are some of the best.\" Earedail smiles at Dania and says, \"And we will have need of those wits.\"

The sands slowly run out...

Sirion glances up and looks at the Lady and Master Falnan, \"Time is up. Are you ready to begin?\"

Sipping himself at a goblet of wine, young Calladan Telamarth stands along the wall. Sidling nearer to Findon, the knight confides quietly in the squire, \"This man arrives late, and then he takes his own dear time in composing an argument. I find it vexing, don\'t you?\"

Gweneth glances up at Sirion, \"I believe so, milord.\" She turns to Falnan, allowing him to speak.

Hrethawyr glances at Falnan as well.

Sirion nods and then rings a small bell, \"We shall begin with Falnan giving the affirmative argument. Falnan.\"

\"Yes, yes,\" mutters Sir Dirhavel, on Calladan\'s opposite side from Findon. \"I, too, am terribly vexed.\"

Cocking a dark eyebrow, Thorondur stares across the library at the fat man, bending the weight of his solemn sapphirine gaze upon that fellow, Falnan. A faintly amused grin touches his lips.

A frown appears upon Findons brow he seem... well, clearly not vexed, at any case. But more concentrated on Sirions words. \"No, I do not...\" The squire murmur then, and inclines his head as he listen to the ongoing conversation.

Lothiriel leans back in her chair, making herself more comfortable as she patiently awaits the opening remarks.

Eowyn, the white lady of Rohan, her expression to be described as strangely distant and aloof, leans slowly to the side though her eyes remain downward upon her hands knitting together in her lap, and softly says something to the Lord Girithlin. The lack of conviction in her eyes leads on to believe her words were of little consequence.

Falnan has disconnected.

Gweneth watches Falnan fall over dead. \"Oh well...\" She rises, \"The topic of whether or not to have an enemy killed, even if he begs for mercy, is quite simple. We are at war, and not playing a children\'s game filled with being nice and fair. If he is not sparred, there is a chance his life will cost that of another Gondorian\'s, further threatening our lands to the evil in the east. True, even if he is in jail, he may escape. If he escapes, he may warn the enemy of information he gathered while in our jails, which could be far worse for our efforts. You forgot, he is a common criminal. Would we allow murderers to be spared if they asks for mercy? A man in a cell takes a man to guard him. Doing this weakens our front lines and our defense. It is unconscionable to allow such a thing.\"

Nodding, Sirion listens closely to the argument and then looks to Thorondur, \"Have you questions to the opening affirmative statement?\"

Servants walk over the Gweneth\'s table and drag the dead man out of the room.

\"We do,\" answers Thorondur, and holds up a hand for patience. \"A moment.\" And he leans toward Eowyn.

Hrethawyr fixes an intent gaze on Eowyn.

Lothiriel\'s eyes fall on Thorondur -- and remain there -- as he consults with his companion in search of questions to ask the Chamberlain.

Sirion waits for a long moment and says, \"Master Girithlin?\"

Gweneth remains standing, looking towards the eagles, awaiting her questions.

\"Firstly then,\" begins the Lord Thorondur, rising after short discussion, \"Our questions for our noble opponent.\"

\"Firstly: Is doing what is Right and Just determined by mere efficiency?

\"Secondly: Is it the place of Men to judge other Men? Or is that right not reserved for Eru Iluvatar, Creator, beyond the Circles of the World?

\"Thirdly: Are common criminals executed upon capture?

\"Fourthly: Is your faith in our prisons so poor that you expect escapse and important information to be common?

\"Fifthly: Does every gaol in Gondor boast an equal ratio of guardsmen to captives?

Sirion arches a brow and then looks to Gweneth. He folds his hands on the table-top.

Bowing his head most courteously, the Knight-Herald settles back into his seat.

The squire tries to listen as intesively as possible, a eyebrow arching slowly as he listens further, and his eyes turn towards Gweneth.

The Chamberlain smirks at the first question, \"Is not doing what will save Gondor in the end right and just? Do we wish to have our nation fall and us all killed over a murderer? As for your second, men are judged all the time by our Prince and our Steward. I would not think this any different. Thirdly, common criminals are punished when captured, as should be a traitor to Gondor. Fouthly, I have great faith in our prison\'s but leaving a man in jail is not absolute. There is chance he may escape. A dead man does not speak, nor wield a sword. Lastly, no, most likely not, but it does take eyes to watch over a man. I would say to have there be as few eyes as possibly needed.\"

Gweneth then looks to Sirion, \"May I sit, milord?\"

Sirion jots down something on a notepad for a moment and then glances up, \"Of course Lady. \" He then looks at Thorondur, \"We shall now turn to introductory statements by the negative argument.\"

Thorondur allows himself a prim smile as Gweneth\'s fifth answer is spoken. \"My lord, I believe we yet have two questions that we may ask.\"

Sirion nods and says, \"So you are right. Seven questions are allowed, I thought you were done. Please proceed.\" He then looks to Gweneth, \"Please remain standing.\"

Glancing across the chamber at Gweneth, Thorondur wonders aloud, \"You say that criminals are punished upon capture. Does that mean that trials are no longer given?\"

Gweneth pauses in her lowering herself down and rises back up, \"Milord, if a man is innocent, he is no criminal.\"

\"If a trial decides him innocent, then of course he is not punished, as he is not a criminal.\"

\"But you do not answer the question,\" Thorondur presses. \"If a criminal is punished upon capture, where is this trial of which you speak? Truly, how can there -be- a trial if a punishment is carried out? Particularly if that instant punishment is capital, yes?\"

Pauses, a look of confusion on her face, \"I gave no specifics on when the punishment would be carried out. Do not put words in my mouth. By saying they are punished when captured, I meant only that they would eventually be punished. I gave no time frame. He would be brought to Gondor and a trial would be held where he would be charged as guilty, for he is our enemy and a traitor to Gondor. The question states that, there is no doubt he is our enemy. Then after all that, he would be punished.\"

Sirion reaches over and rings a bell.

Sirion nods and says, \"Thank you Lady. We will now turn to the Negative Opening Statements.\"

Sirion\'s eyes fall upon Thorondur.

Gweneth nods and lowers herself back into her chair.

The Lord Girithlin nods twice -- first to the judges, and then to his foe -- before beginning his own side\'s introductory argument. And then, he speaks:

\"Gentles, the question before us is one of great import. There are two things I would like to note of the statement before our consideration today. Firstly, we must consider what it is to be justifiable. For the purpose of today\'s debate, to be justifiable is to be of moral upstanding nature, the noble thing to do. The second thing to be considered is that this concerns not a baser creature such as an orc, but concerns the life of a man. This is an important distinction to be made for the purpose of this argument.

\"There are two reasons that are each alone sufficient for you to believe that it is morally abhorrent to execute a man who begs for mercy simply because he is your enemy.

\"The first argument for respecting the humanity of another is that in war, it is ignoble to kill outside a contest of might. When war is laid to by a country, it is the goal of that country to destroy the will of its opponent to fight. This must still be done within the constraints that morality puts on the actions of soldiers. In the case of a soldier who is an enemy, their will to fight has been eliminated. To execute them goes beyond the limits of what is right, and what is intended by the scope of war.

\"The second reason that executing an enemy who begs mercy is wrong is that it deprives him of just treatment under law. To kill even though another begs mercy is murder, and thus unjustified unless a person is tried fairly under the law. If a soldier goes beyond this limitation and in the heat of the moment kills another who begs mercy, he commits an ignoble act, and thus one which is unjustified.

\"We are noble Men, High Men, my lords. Descendants of Numenor.\"

Lothiriel looks from Thorondur to Gweneth and back again, curious and pensive as she ponders and makes mental notes on the most recent statement.

Sirion nods and jots something down on his pad. He was listening very intently. When Thorondur ceases he looks to Gweneth, \"You may begin questioning.\"

Gwaiandir opens and closes the door quietly, stepping through between, in one easy and fluid movement. He stands very still, catching the gist of the contest in progress.

Gweneth stands once more, \"My first questions, I wonder if the executing of a soldier of Mordor is abhorent if he begs mercy, knowing that most likely he will say anything to save his skin?\"

In answer, Thorondur replies, \"As we have already stated, Madame: His will to fight has been eliminated. To execute him goes beyond the limits of what is right, and what is intended by the scope of war. Few among us can read hearts or minds: Do you then presume to know the mind of Mordor? I would not stake so precarious a claim.\"

Gweneth turns to Sirion, \"Could I recieve a yes or no answer to that question?\"

Sirion nods, \"You may. \" He then looks at Thorondur, \"You may explain more of your replies in your second statement.\"

Across the hall, frowns long and deep from rough men dressed in varying shades of greens and browns greet the Lord Girithlin\'s answer.

\"It was given, Madame,\" replies Thorondur with a smile. \"You need but distill it from the words, if you can. But as I must simplify things,\" he sighs, \"So be it.\" And now his tone becomes a trifle didactic.

\"When I say, \'his will to fight has been eliminated. To execute him goes beyond the limits of what is right, and what is intended by the scope of war,\' the answer to your question is quite implicit within it, my dear Gweneth. Yes, it is indeed abhorrent. I had thought this quite clear.\"

Gweneth nods to Thorondur, \"I also question why justified must be moral upstanding. Justifed as far as I am familar with the definition is to show a sufficient lawful reason for an act done. The man is an enemy of Gondor. He is a traitor. He will be killed, either by a sword on the field, or an axe in one of our courtyards. Do you believe that that is not sufficient lawful reason to act? To kill the enemy, a traitor, of Gondor if you cannot bring him to a trial.\"

Hrethawyr looks toward Thorondur and raises an eyebrow slightly.

Sirion looks to Gweneth, \"There is no need to make arguments during your questioning. Please do not argue during questioning. Ask questioning.\"

Gweneth turns to Sirion, \"I apologize and shall keep the rest of my questions more brief.\"

Gwaiandir lowers his head and places his hand across his mouth, closing it and bringing it down around and over his chin. Then he looks up, eyes sparkling.

Sirion nods and snaps his fingers. His retainers come behind him and begin to fan him.

Thorondur, too, looks to Sirion. \"I would remind the gallery that treachery and opposition are not mutual. We discuss enemies of war, my lord -- yes?\" This is a request for clarification from the judge, apparently. \"Not traitors?\"

Gweneth turns to Sirion, \"This in itself could be debated milord.\"

Sirion says, \"The statement is clearly said that the people in question are enemies. How it is defined is completely up to the arguing parties. You may choose to accept or not accept the opposing view of what an enemy is.\"

Lothiriel leans back, making herself more comfortable, and closes her eyes a moment to rest them as the debate drags on.

Thorondur nods, curtly, at Sirion\'s reply -- and looks to Gweneth curiously.

Findon folds his arms over his chest, leaning back against the wall. It seems as if he finds the discussion strangely interesting -- and yet terribly boring.

Sirion nods and says, \"Based on the definition of enemy that you provided Lord Thorondur, how would you answer the question?\"

Gweneth nods to Thorondur, \"I also question why justified must be moral upstanding. Justifed as far as I am familar with the definition is to show a sufficient lawful reason for an act done. The man is an enemy of Gondor. He is a traitor. He will be killed, either by a sword on the field, or an axe in one of our courtyards. Do you believe that that is not sufficient lawful reason to act? To kill the enemy, a traitor, of Gondor if you cannot bring him to a trial.\"

Thorondur, too, looks to Sirion. \"I would remind the gallery that treachery and opposition are not mutual. We discuss enemies of war, my lord -- yes?\" This is a request for clarification from the judge, apparently. \"Not traitors?\"

Sirion says, \"The statement is clearly said that the people in question are enemies. How it is defined is completely up to the arguing parties. You may choose to accept or not accept the opposing view of what an enemy is.\"

Gwaiandir moves from his place near the wall to a better vantage point and seats himselfwhere he may see the princess Lothiriel. He proceeds with a little half-bow and seats himself upon the floor from which position he occupies his eyes with gazing upon her loveliness in unpretentious youthful admiration. Meanwhile the debate-game progresses.

\"Ah, I see,\" Thorondur says with a nod. \"I was unaware that there had been a question.\" With a faint smile, then, he explains, \"The enemy of Gondor, if he is a man of Mordor, is firstly not a traitor to the realm but a sworn foeman of it. The punishment for treason is not here applicable.

\"Secondly, it is murder to kill a man who begs for mercy. This realm is not founded on mercenary law, but on morality, justice. Justifiable acts in Gondor are those acts justified by the absolute truths upon which our society is based. The legacy of Numenor, and of Elendil, is one of mercy and wisdom, not the mercenary action the Lady Bragollach proscribes. The proper course of action is to take the man captive -- not kill him.\"

Sirion rings a bell.

Deciding that discussions of this kind are not for him, the squire, Findon, turn to the door, opens it and steps out. When the door finally closes, from a light push of his, Findons footsteps are since long gone.

\"Time is up for this questioning period,\" explains the son of Tirion. \"We shall now move onto a rebuttal of the negative opening statement by the affirmative team.\"

Gweneth turns to Sirion, astonished, \"Milord, time is up? The eagles were allowed seven questions to our three. Surely that is not fair?\"

\"Perhaps if the Lady will ask her questions with more speed,\" says Sirion. \"Then perhaps time would not seem so short. Ask on then, but you are both warned to keep your arguments and questioning concise.\"

The Lord Girithlin lowers himself to his seat, folding his hands together and leaning toward the Lady Eowyn. Another wry smile quirks his lips, and more words pass between them, unheard.

Gweneth nods to Sirion, turning to Thorondur, \"But this is war, Lord Thorondur. Tell me, if you were on a battle field, war raging around you. You are faced with an opponent, an enemy of Gondor. You attempts to kill you, you rend him defensless. He begs for mercy, there on the field of battle. Do you kill him? Or let him free?\"

As Lothiriel\'s eyes pass over the occupants of the room, she raises a hand and waves for a servant. Quietly, to not disturb the proceedings, she whispers in his ear, and after a moment he departs -- only to return a few minutes later with a pitcher of water and a number of glasses, which he offers as refreshment to those spread about the room and those engaged in the debate.

Sirion nods to the Princess in thanks.

\"I do neither, my Lady,\" The Lord responds coolly. \"As I have already told you: I take him captive.\"

Hrethawyr takes one of the offered glasses of water and sips at it slowly as he watches the proceedings intently.

Gweneth says, \"I then ammend my question. You see no way to capture him. If you lower your weapon, you will be killed, you can tell this. All of your men are also engaged in battle. Do you kill him?\"\"

\"No,\" responds the Herald, still unshaken. \"I simply render him unconscious, and move on. It is easily done, my lady -- as any veteran of a battlefield could tell you.\"

When he is offered his glass of cool water, Gwairandir raises it up in salute to the lady who instructed that it be served, puts it to his lips and quaffs it.

Gweneth nods, \"The man lives and returns to fight against Gondor another day. He ends up raping a woman of Gondor. Do you believe that woman would thank you for your mercy?\"

\"That, my lady,\" replies Thorondur, \"is a digression.\"

Gweneth shrugs, \"It is my question.\"

Hrethawyr glances toward Gweneth and nods slightly.

A glance toward Sirion is Thorondur\'s next gesture. \"Is the question upheld, my lord?\"

Gwaiandir \'s attention is drawn abruptly by Gweneth\'s question.

Sirion leans over and confers with the Princess quietly...

Gweneth turns to Sirion, \"I should be able to use my questions as I see fit. I should be able to ask the man if the sky is blue, I would believe.\"

Lothiriel speaks quietly with the elder man, the turns to Gweneth, \"The Knight-Herald is right, Lady Gweneth -- It is a digression. We would thank you to remain closer to the topic at hand.\"

Gweneth blinks, \"A digression? The topic is whether or not it is justified. Whether or not a woman is raped is a good ground to decid justification. Does you answer still stand, my Princess?\"

Gwaiandir lowers his eyes, raising a brow.

\"It does, Lady.\" Lothiriel responds, her level of patience lowering.

Gweneth clears her throat, turning to Thorondur, \"Lord Girithlin, would you not agree that giving mercy to those who would give him none puts our community at risk?\"

Hrethawyr fixes Thorodur with an intent gaze.

\"My lady speaks as if forced labour in the mines of Ered Nimrais, or a confinement in the lower cells beneath Barad Requain is mercy,\" Thorondur replies. \"I would remind her, my enemy is either slain or taken captive. I do not allow the foeman to run free. Her question is moot.\"

Gwaiandir\'s eyes move to Sirion assessingly as a cloud passing.

Gweneth says, \"Lord Thorondur is a fine Knight, but he cannot guarentee such. I say the question stands.\"

Long distance to Thorondur: Lothiriel understands that... \"Took me a few weeks to believe my favorite side of you was back -- but perhaps I\'m more easily convinced than other people.\" :)

The Knight laughs at that! \"Would you test my skill, then, Lady Bragollach?\"

Sirion looks at Gweneth for a moment, \"Patience.\" He then gives Thorondur a look of warning.

Hrethawyr raises an eyebrow slightly

Sirion leans over to the Princess for a moment and speaks quietly with her.

Gweneth smiles at Thorondur wickedly and say nothing.

Gwaiandir raises a brow in the direction of the Imperator.

\"My apologies, my lord. Your Grace.\" Thorondur nods to the judges in turn, then returns his attention to Gweneth. \"I would disagree. I would say that giving mercy to him who would give none wins us a friend, where we may have had none before. Assuming, of course, that any soldier of Gondor should be so poorly trained as to let a prisoner go free.\"

\"I should also add,\" Thorondur says, \"That to give him no mercy is to be as immoral as he.\"

Sirion looks again to Thorondur, \"That argument should be saved for your rebuttal Lord Girithlin.\"

Now hearty laughter answers the Girthlin\'s lord, whispered echoes of the word \"Friend!?\" passing amongst those in the hall.

One such laughing fellow is cuffed by Sir Calladan, soorely. The laughter quiets almost immediately.

The corner of Gwairandir\'s mouth turns up ever so slightly at the diction.

\"I was merely answering the Lady, my lord,\" Thorondur respectfully demurs.

Gweneth chuckles briefly, quickly clearing her throat and covering her smile, \"Excuse me, I have something in my throat.\" She clears her throat again, pursing her lips, \"My last question, the topic is the execution of a man who begs mercy, yet is the enemy. It says naught about trials or of battle, only that simple fact. I ask Lord Thorondur, would you consider Lord Denethor morally abhorent for ordering the execution of a captured Easterling that has begged for mercy, as he has done in the past?\"

Gwaiandir observes the violent action. Hiw face goes white, his mouth draws tightly. He rises and making a bow to the princess, proceeds out the door.

\"I would,\" Thorondur says, with conviction, and without a trace of hesitation, though his opponent invokes the Steward\'s name. \"The identity of the executioner does not change or alter the absolute moral stance upon which this Realm, and from which the Faithful of Numenor who founded, it take their strength and, yea, yet hold ourselves High Men in this waning age. To be less is to drift inexorably into the Shadow.\"

Sirion nods and then says, \"Very well. Lady, you may now begin your first rebuttal.\"

Gweneth nods once more, glancing around at the crowd, \"Lord Thorondur\'s argument is that we be merciful to our enemies. To those that rape and pilliage Gondor and its people. Giving no regard to its safety, nor its people. By his last comment, he would have every enemy that walks into Gondor that begs mercy to live. Not even the Steward of Gondor should \"lower\" himself to serve judgement on our enemies. Indeed, Mordor should change its plans now and just walk into Gondor shouting, \"Please, oh please don\'t kill me.\" It is absurd. It is perfectly justified in that I do not want my cousins, nor my brother being killed in another battle.\" She turns to the Princess, \"What if the fair Princess was harmed because of this mercy? Would that not be one of the greatest tragedies in our History? I say, it //is// justified, and I believe I have proved my points. I do not believe it may be right, for indeed, I wish we would not have to kill at all, but I say,\" she pauses, \"It is just.\"

Sirion nods slowly and says, \"Thank you Lady. Does the Lord Girithlin have a second argument?\"

A curt nod, and the Lord so named replies, \"We do.\"

Lothiriel raises a brow as she is referenced, and a small smile plays on the corners of her mouth.

And the Herald speaks: \"I wonder: Is preserving Gondor more important than upholding the ideals that founded it? If we are to become countries that murder at one moment and at the next say we are a good and superior people the next, we are not only murderers but also hypocrites acting as badly as our evil enemies. Are we then even worth preserving as a realm, for a Realm that actcts as the Lady would have us act is already upon us: It sits on our eastern border, beyond Ithilien.

\"If we believe we are superior to our enemies morally, than it is our duty to be moral to a fault. We believe killing to be wrong, if it does not directly thwart the loss of a life. If a man begs for mercy, and you spare his life, then you have done your part of upholding the side of right, and if he then kills and maims then he has proven himself unworthy of mercy. Would you have all your knights become cold to any plea for mercy? Just as our men go to battle under orders, we must also believe our foes go also under their orders. If they ask our mercy we are obligated to consider the possibility that we will be killing a man sent to battle under duress. If we are to be fair and just, all men, friend and foe must be given equal portion in the eye of law.

\"And also I must remind the Lady: Though he rent the world a first time, the Valar pardoned Morgoth Bauglir. And though he rent it a second time, yet he was taken captive, and hurled into the Void. Captive, my lady. Gweneth attempts to reduce this to Freedom and Death, but it is not limited to these things. I say a prisoner who works in the mines is far more useful than a dead man. I say that a kingdom of High Men who murders a seeker of mercy is not a kingdom of the High Men at all. And I say, if the Lady Gweneth has such little faith in Gondor\'s soldiery as to believe such an end as she describes even possible? Then perhaps she had best remember the courage of her brother Indilzar and men like him, who makes such a thing impossible... by killing or, aye -- capturing their foes.\"

Sirion looks at Gweneth for a moment considering, \"Does the Lady have a rebuttal?\"

Gweneth takes her seat and begins to speak with the man at her bare table, writing things on the sheet of parchment from time to time.

Hrethawyr stands and walks away from his chair. He bows politely to his team, to the judges and to the other team. \"Lords, Ladies, and all Present. This has been something of a controversial topic it seems, from listening to the somewhat heated argument that has been presented here this evening. But we must remember certain things. . One is that, while mercy is a splendid quality, times of war demand more severe punishments for those who would threaten our security. Letting an enemy go free can prove a future hazard, should he or she return to continue the actions that put him or her in your way in the first Place. The likelihood they will repeat their actions while mocking your mercy is stronger that that of them going away and reforming their lives. Preservation of the country is an imperative. thought sometimes what we do to accomplish that task might seem harsh. especially by peacetime standards. But in war we dont\' always have the luxury of giving a second chance to our foe. Finally, we are not Valar.. .only Mortals whose decisions, while sometimes flawed. . must still be based on circumstances /in the REAL/ world. I hope that you will all keep this in mind as you make your final decision on this matter,\" he touches the embroidered cloth pinned to his cloak, \"remember that we have those we care for whose safety must take priority. .\"

Lothiriel, with a smile, rings the bell. \"Lord Girithlin, your closing statement?\"

Hrethawyr bows politely again, \"I thank you \" and reseats himself with his team.

\"My lords and ladies,\" the Lord Girithlin begins, speaking both to judges, opponents, allies, and those gathered to watch, \"I have spoken of absolute moral truths. Mercy, Compassion, Justice. Without these things we are as lesser Men. Without these things we are no longer Gondor.

\"Though the Lady Gweneth and her fellows here speak to you, truly, in words that tug at your heartstrings -- and mine,\" and here he looks fleetingly, wistfully to Lothiriel, \"that is all that they speak. Emotional appeals. An attempt to muddy the clear water of universal Truth at the heart of this issue. Let me cast the beacon of Truth, and disperse this fog of emotion.\"

\"I say to you: To slay a man who begs for mercy is murder. Murder is inherently wrong, for we are Dunedain, and the wisdom is given us to know this as Truth. Therefore, to slay a man who asks for mercy can never be right, my lords and ladies -- or Gondor is become like Mordor and its thralls, and not worth preserving. Thank you.\"

Sirion nods slowly and says, \"If you would give us a moment.\"

The old knight then leans over and begins to speak quietly with the Princess.

Gweneth smiles as Hrethawyr comes back to the table, \"You did excellently. Thank you for helping me.\"

Hrethawyr smiles warmly at Gweneth in return, \"and I thank you for allowing me the honour of doing so, my Lady\"

Gweneth leans back in her chair, covering her eyes with her palms, \"What a day...\" she says, then starts to yawn, quickly covering it with her hand.

Now does the Lord Girithlin bow, in stately fashion, to the judges -- and deeply. And returning to his table, each of his allies receives a warm smile, and and a hand shaken or politely kissed in gratitude.

Hrethawyr nods, \"glad I didn\'t have to compete in the combat today\"

Sirion leans back into his seat for a moment. He then sighs and rises saying, \"We have come to a decision.\"

With these words, Gweneth chuckles, \"I was adventurous today...\" she stops her conversation and turns to Sirion.

Hrethawyr smiles at Gweneth and turns his attention to Sirion.

Looking up from deliberation with the elderly lord, Lothiriel glances about the room, eyes not hinting at the dicision at all. She stands also, silently, as it is announced.

Sirion holds up his hand as if in token of parlay, \"While we felt that both arguments and the debate was held soundly from both sides, it is of the opinions of the judges that Lord Girithlin\'s arguments were sounder and more organized. Therefore, this victory is granted to the Eagles. Tommorrow, Gweneth will play either the Swords or the Fists for second place. The Eagles will move onto the final debate round.\"

Gweneth blinks several times at the decision, mumbling, \"Denethor... an abhorent man... how interesting.\" Then rises, curtsies to Thorondur and leaves the room.

A gracious smile is Thorondur\'s, for Gweneth and the judges -- for the nonce, at least -- but the congratulations of a knot of gathered knights he accepts gladly. Hearty backslaps and such gratitudes are met with a guarded word, though: \"A round yet remains to us, my friends.\"

And now detaching himself from them, he moves toward Sirion and the Princess.

Lothiriel remains standing, a soft smile playing at the corners of her mouth. \"Congratulations, Lord Girithlin.\" She speaks quietly, though not without a hint of warmth.

\"My thanks, my Princess,\" Thorondur whispers, pausing before Lothiriel, her own hinted-at smile mirrored in his eyes. \"Yet we have yet a long way to travel, ere the tourney is ours. But I have something for you -- will you join the rest of us by the bay doors?\"

A curious beam of light touches her blue-grey eyes, and the Princess\'s smile widens. \"I will.\" And she begins to move towards the door.